San Francisco 3 piece Deerhoof earned many new Irish fans last year when they supported Radiohead at a sold out Marley Park show. Drumming mentalist Greg Saunier took some time out to talk to Analogue in advance of their return to Ireland to play at Electric Picnic.

Analogue: Are you looking forward to playing in Ireland again?

Greg Saunier: Very much so. It was, I mean, we were, I suppose…we maybe had some extra lucky way of experiencing Ireland for the first time. Where as, most bands would you know, maybe make a stop there on a bigger UK tour and it would be your first time and expect nobody to know you. Our first show was basically in front of 15,000 people, opening at the Beck and Radiohead show. There should have been no reason for anyone to know our songs or any idea who were but still we started playing. First of all it was a place we never had played before and second of all it was as support for a bigger band. We expected nothing but it was the most enthusiastic response. It was really memorable and everyone was in a really good mood and it is a testament to the nature of Radiohead fans but it showed us what it is really like to play in Ireland. Later when I went out into the audience to watch the rest of the concert, I just found everybody was so easy to talk to. I could instantly make friends with people around me. It was really great and we enjoyed that experience very much so we are looking forward to going back.

A: You played the TBMC very shortly afterwards. It must have been very weird to have Thom Yorke as honored supporter in the crowd?

G: How did you know he was there?

A: I read something you said that he was dancing crazily..

G: I actually couldn’t see him. That was something the people in the audience told me later, like “Who’s that weirdo?!” Of course it turned out to be him and I didn’t know he was there until I came off stage and I was basically walking to the merchandise table from the stage and this guy was like “Oh great show”. One thing I specifically remember was when he was saying to me that it was a great show he was patting me on the back and then immediately retracted it back as I was soaked. It was really funny. We had bumped into him and Johnny (Greenwood). Basically we were walking around the Music Centre looking for dinner and we went to a Japanese restaurant and we were told the wait was going to be 40 minutes and we said nah and we went to see what else there is and basically we went onto the sidewalk and there the next thing we saw was vegetarian food and said cool as I am a vegetarian and that was perfect for us and we walk in and guess who’s sitting down having dinner there but Jonny and Thom. Immediately they invited us over. We also found out Johnny was roped into doing some Irish music concert that same night but Thom was deciding what he would do on his night off from touring. When I have a day off from tour I basically sleep, not see anybody and I am going to give my ears a rest and be fatigued from the world and meeting people and stuff. What does Thom Yorke want to do on his night off after playing with Deerhoof day in and out? Come to our concert. We were surprised and we basically didn’t think it would happen but there he was. It was really fun and memorable. We liked the venue but we did get clamped when we were inside the show!

A: One thing I got from other interviews you have done is the change of your outlook and approach of making music after playing with Radiohead. How did that come about?

G: I think we had changed it before we had met Radiohead as basically it was a thrill to be with Radiohead as they are a very popular band. Clearly such an influence and being such a force to be reckoned with in music as they are to so many different kind of musicians and they float above any sub-genre and they have some sort of affect. We were already crazy fans before this. Whenever we were working on some new stuff we would A-B our music with their music and see if it could measure up to something they have done.

A: What about changes beforehand like Chris leaving and being a three piece set up. Did it force you to learn over again as a three piece and try new things?

G: We were a three piece before he joined so it was extremely natural to go back to a three piece. It’s funny to say that we had to go back and learn again. I could say that we already knew how to play as a three piece but that would be a lie as with and without Chris we still don’t know how to play. We’re still trying to figure it out as we play. We’re still thinking like “What in the world are we doing on stage and what is this ridiculous material we are trying to present to people?” None of it makes sense to us at all and that’s kind of funny to us. I think that the audience can feel like we are still trying to figure it out and that it is a work in progress.

A: Your latest album Friend Opportunity is like a fresh Deerhoof sound but you go back to sampling like on Apple O. How did you approach this album?

G: Well partly to do with the tour and other things happening at the time we basically didn’t have enough time to record it. Everybody had been working on ideas for songs on their own. But once we got together to make an album, most of the time we had set aside for this kept getting re-allotted other things that we could in no way say no to. We were working really fast so if we had an approach at all it was we had no rules as the deadline was enough of a discipline and it was strict enough that that felt like the challenge we had. Also anytime anyone had a thought or an idea we would just try it and so that’s how it ended up. So a lot of times you can’t necessarily know who’s doing what other than when we are singing. Sometimes Satomi plays guitar and other times the drums. Basically we had no limitations on the band as we already had the limitations with the deadline.

A: Although you didn’t have the time you really are perfectionists. For example on the Runner Four album you found it difficult to find a definite ending…

G: Well we recorded it on the computer but we always did it and always mixed ourselves. That’s the upside and the downside. On the one side you have enough time to get it perfect but then albums can take up ending years. I remember working on Reveille for two years straight trying to figure out how to get it straight and other albums have taken longer. So it’s a kind of weird pattern we go to. We start all innocent and fun and we get the sort of thrill of getting ideas from listening to stuff on stereo speakers after doodling on a guitar or hearing things in your mind and then you get to the stage where you say “It’s still not right” and then you put on your Radiohead CD and you go “Woah!”. It turns into a kind of obsession and every time you hear it all you hear is nothing but flaws. So we try and get tired of it.

A: You’re always pushing boundaries and trying new things. Do you get frustrated with critics trying to get your sound and label it experimental?

G: Well I actually like it when they do label it. I get a kick out of it. I think that some compliment and privilege and honour when they do. I find it a weird sense of accomplishment. Like it’s not our goal but I do feel happy when it happens. Sometimes a music journalist can be like a kind of know it all and their job requires them to listen to a lot of things on short notice and try to get the gist of something right of way. They can appear to be jaded in some sort of way and not be overwhelmed with the ecstacy with every single CD that comes their way. So this sort of person’s job is to try and see where everything fits in and find the perfect description and comparison for everything so they can find that perfect and simplified idea to the consumer confronted by another hundred CD’s. So when that person is at a loss for words I find that an accomplishment.

A: On one of your songs “Plus 81” it’s a real example where the lyrics perfectly compliment the sound and mood of the song. Could you tell us a little about the dynamics between you John and Satomi in the band? Are you almost at a point where you’re guessing what the other person is thinking?

G: I don’t know if it’s guessing. It feels like a kind of magic that I can’t describe. That song is one of many I wrote. I didn’t have any sense what the song was about. I just had this melody and drum beats. I am so concerned with pitches and rhythms that I just don’t have the slightest idea what the song is about. Satomi will hear the song for the first time and whenever she decides to focus her mind on that task, it’s like it suddenly comes clear to her what the song is about. As soon as she comes up to me and tells me or shows me what she’s doing I instantly realize that that is what it is all about. I feel like it is one of the greatest gifts one person can give to another person is to collaborate with someone and make something bigger out of what the first person did and to find the real meaning of what the first person said. Like we are from two different countries. Communication is complicated like it is with two people anyway but it’s amazing. Sometimes I feel like I have deeper communication with a person in this process of making music. She wants to discover what I didn’t even know in making the music. It still surprises me..

A: Is it true you get ideas for songs when you dream and in your sleep?

G: Yeah. It’s not like a rule. If I get an idea another way I will not say no.

A: Do you go “I need to get another idea, I’m going to bed!”?

G: -Ha. I really need to perfect the power nap. What I need to do this polyphasic sleeping where people sleep about 5 times a day for 20 minutes each time and Da Vinci was one of the original proponents of this. Obviously that guy had no problem with productivity and a lack of ideas. It seems like that was the source of his ideas. I have like these sketches and then I have to try and find a way to work them out and make it turn into something. I don’t know how to describe it. Sometimes I take accidental naps like in the back seat of a car but I never understood how to control whether it will be a good nap or a bad nap. If you sleep the wrong number of minutes you will wake up more horrible and tired than when you were before you slept. But then a bit of the time you get lucky and feel so much better and feel like I have had this incredible minute where I feel like suddenly the entire universe after this sleep feels fresh and new. But then it floats away.

A: Being woken up from a deep sleep suddenly is probably akin to being on drugs?

G: I have never taken any drugs. Maybe chocolate. Ha. Maybe this is my way of trying to get the lightning to strike in the right place. For as long as I can remember sleep cultivates how to put these things around me together. Ideas seem hard to notice. They sometimes hide or are wiped out by consciousness being busy doing something else. Under the surface thinking about this is trying to appreciate the ideas.

A: You seem to have no problems performing. You have a sparse drum kit but use it very well. How did you come to making your drum sound?

G: If you saw me playing a really big drum set you would see I have no idea how to use it. I get completely confused it there’s too many thing to hit and my arms get crossed and I end up poking myself in the eye and nothing right comes out of it. I have always been into self restrictions….

A: But what comes out of it is real edgy ideas and styles. So from almost restricting yourself you have in fact pushed yourself?

G: Exactly you have nothing to fall back on. Something that has fascinated musicians for several centuries is the idea of the solo. You know those Bach cello solos that are just always returned to by musicians of all types for every field of music. So for one cello you have one sound. You cant play two melodies at one time but we are going to try and evoke something bigger from these very limited means and although one instrument like that cannot play more than one chord it can give the mental impression that it can do more when played in unison and the listeners brain tries to fill in the gaps. The listener has to work with the performer in trying to finish what is a very skeletal suggestion. The suggestion of counterpoint or there being more than one instrument. Even with one instrument Bach creates the idea of there being more than one. Both performer and listener work together to finish the work. Even a cheap keyboard can have hundreds of sounds and choices. You can be overwhelmed. I can be overwhelmed by all the choices. I like pairing it down as it forces me to come up with something more. I like working on a small drum kit so we don’t need any roadies and it’s easier to transport. When you’re playing with a large kit with various sounds, if as you’re playing you start feeling the sound is getting bland you can go to something else there. However if you feel like you’re playing with nothing then what are you going to do when the music gets stale? You have to think of an idea to try and bring the music back to life. So I feel constantly challenged by the lack of choices with my small drum kit.

A: Aside from that you have tried some other things such as contributing to music for films such as Dedication?

G: It had its premiere just a while ago in New York.

A: How did it come about that you started working on a film?

G: Justin Theroux who is known more as an actor and this is his first as a director, he’s more well known for being in some David Lynch movies and other stuff. He had made this movie and sent us the rough edit of it and we couldn’t believe it. It was full of all these Deerhoof songs from other albums. It was like as previously mentioned when Satomi would write music from the music I make and she would be able to see the purpose or meaning of the song that was hidden from me to that point. It was weird to suddenly see your music set to images and a piece of a story with plot and characters. Suddenly the piece and music felt so much more.

A: Did it like give it a lot more feeling?

G: We just related to him in a special way and we had this similar kind of way that we’re drawn to the obsessive and naughty and arrhythmic… It is hard to explain. It is not that we are all experimenting. It’s about this specific feeling of someone struggling with themselves and has obsessions and compulsions and a need to always repeat the most difficult aspect, moment of a situation. To express thoughts that shouldn’t be expressed in certain situations. There was a certain dark humor.

A: You were working with composers?

G: After he sent us the rough he asked us were there other parts of the movies where music would go well and we could not believe that this person was trusting us so much to answer a question like that and we immediately started recording stuff for it and sending him tunes. A lot of it ended up getting used and eventually his producers ended up calling a composer in L.A called Ed Schumer.
Theres a funny story to this in fact….
We were on tour with Radiohead before coming to Ireland and before Radiohead asked us on tour. Ed was a big Radiohead fan and he goes to see Radiohead in concert and was intrigued by this band opening for them and asking who it was and wishing he cold work with a band like that and then he gets back to his office the next morning and there is this dedication DVD sitting on his desk saying that this is a movie with a lot of music by a band called Deerhoof and we are thinking of adding some more stuff and was wondering if you would like to work with this band and it was such a complete coincidence. Turns out he loved the movie and had loads of ideas about using music.
Working on the final mix and having everything all in place it was hard to work out who did what as it just seemed all so seamless our work together. I think Justin’s whole approach to using music and sound in this movie is so original. If nothing else the process he used was as it allowed us to be involved. We never climbed on some career ladder to get into the sound affects business. We were just some random band that he got in touch with. He trusted us in a way that it was just ludicrous on paper.

A: Its not the first time Deerhoof music has inspired someone to go ahead and create something in a different art form. You album Milk Man was adapted for an elementary school ballet!?

G: Yeah. They just repeated that performance a few weeks ago and we have become great friends with the people involved in that. It’s totally incredible. There are journalists who feel our music is experimental and only meant for other musicians and certain kinds of knowledgeable crowd and the initiated and elitist. Our dream is always the opposite and I cannot believe our good fortune at how our dreams have come true where it has reached the confines of indie rock.

A: Friend Opportunity is a shorter work. It has the Deerhoof essence but appeals to more. Was that intentional?

G: It was kinda intentional. It has been intentional every time. We don’t have a type of audience we try to appeal to like one genre of musical listeners. We never really fit well into any musical scenes. We have during our time together seen many musical genres come and go like in San Francisco. We never really felt like we were accepted into any of them but we have been able to have friends in many different local scenes. So it was like you didn’t have to be part of any scene to like our band. So if you were part of a certain scene you were most likely to love it or hate us. You are most likely to never have heard of us. I like the feeling that you cannot predict the music a Deerhoof fan listens to or what they look like, age they are or what income level they’re from. You can’t really tell anyone about them. When your fans start to include six year old kids on an island in Maine that want to sing and dance to it you really feel like it is our ultimate goal.

A: What’s next for Deerhoof?

G: Electric Picnic!

A: You have a brief break from touring now. Have you been working on new material? Or is that something else further down the line?

G: Each of the three of us are working on ideas on our own and we are always doing that and seeking out new ideas for future possible songs. However we haven’t gotten together to work on new stuff. Mostly we have been working on is Dedication. The craziness on working on that we have managed to somehow be trusted in being involved in the publicity and it is completely bizarre.

A: It keeps things interesting?

G: Interesting is one word. It has actually been like a crash course to the corporate world. Working with the movie and the studios releasing and promoting it, all their marketing teams and producing teams and the way they work is so utterly different to what we’re used to. On this tiny indie rock band it is really different. We have had to really hound people to get different ideas across on how you believe in this movie and how it is presented to people a certain way through emails. You are only talking to some liaison understudy. These people are just nine to fivers. For us this is one of the biggest things we have ever been involved and been a part of but for them it may just seem as something insignificant as it’s just some minor indie movie to them. It’s probably nothing compared to the other movies on their release schedule. It is hard to convince them to, well I am afraid that it may be sold to the wrong audience. Although it is a romantic comedy in name and context, the actual reality of the movie, is that it is for people who wouldn’t normally go to romantic comedies.

A: You’re doing a lot of work to put it across the right way but the fact that you are involved in it will immediately attract a certain crowd that wouldn’t be into romantic comedies the film is going to speak for itself. I can’t wait to see it myself.

G: I’m totally amazed by it and being involved and trusted so much in the process of the movie, even up to the sound. I mean we were like “what do Deerhoof know about sound mix in a movie?” but there we were mixing it. Even to be trusted to participate in the publicity we thought why in the world would the Weinstein company, a multi million dollar corporation, a major player in the popular culture industry turn to some little scrappy unknown DIY punk rock band or whatever on ideas on how to…

A: They’re trying to keep the sound and things fresh?

G: Yeah. I mean it is probably more to do with us badgering and pestering them like a fly constantly asking them what they are doing and making suggestions to them. I mean it is not like they came to us with open arms. It has been a really long process to manage to insert our selves into the process.

A: On that note, I read somewhere that Deerhoof is all about love. Is that what keeps you going?

G: Yeah, I mean, it’s you know I probably said that as a joke to one particular journalist who wanted to pin us as some snobbish, intellectual, experimental band. So I mean, today as I am talking to you on the phone, it is in the middle of me trying to deal with what is going on with this Dedication movie. I mean if I had to summarize in one syllable what idea I have for this movie that it’s marketers don’t know exactly know. I had a love for the movie and for Justin who did it so while he’s busy shooting another movie with Ben Stiller in Hawaii he is too busy to consider what is going on. So I am trying to protect, care and nurture it so that it comes across and doesn’t get spoiled and misrepresented so therefore you know thrown in the waste basket. I really believe in the ideas that Justin is trying to come across with in the movie and the aesthetic and characters. I recognize these characters and some of them in myself, their mindset, concerns and difficulties. I completely identify with them. Well the source of everything we do is love and if not why would we be doing it. There’s not other reasons for doing it. That’s the thing about music, it is that other than those short lived and rare cases where people are making a real big income from music…It is so uncommon and laughable to be even considering…the other 99% of us is that what’s cool about it is that there is no other reason to do it but that. It doesn’t build houses for people or put clothes on peoples’ backs or cure diseases or ends wars or anything like that. It is just able to express something else which has no justification other than…I don’t know how to describe it.

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